50 replies to this topic

[kevwil]

The first patch that affected heat scaling/penalties had some sort of change that made firing AC2 in fast succession give some strange heat-buildup. As soon as you hit 20% heat, you'd go right up to 40% if you kept firing, normal heat accumulation would resume. The problem is, with the new patch yesterday, once your heat gets up to 20%, it jumps to 40% and it appears as though each individual round of AC2 fired gives an additional 10% heat. Basically, you will shut down after about 10-12 rounds.

Here is specifically what I play:

Jagermech DD or the other with 4 ballistic slots. 4 AC2. xl300, endo and armor upgrade, 600 ammo, as many double heatsinks as I can fit (1.24 or 1.22 heat efficiency I think). I played Tourmaline desert first. I know it's hot there but I can usually fire for 10 seconds before getting up to heat warning.

Here's how I set up my weapon groups so I can maximize rate of fire (this is probably obvious to most people):

Group 1 has all 4 AC2's. group 2, 3, and 4 each have one AC2. I somewhat-slowly roll my fingers over 2, 3, and 4. After group #4 fires, I hold down left click to get a nice ROF.

In the heat of battle I'm not perfect so my rhythm is usually 3 firing quickly and then a delay with the last AC2 firing and then the three again. I've still been accused of using some sort of macro software though... A jager with 4 AC2's is pretty much my favourite loadout. It's a lot of fun to focus on some poor mech and shake them to near-blindness for 10 seconds. The only possible way to use AC2's without the insane heat is to simply fire all 4 at once. This isn't terrible but it's not exactly the best use of 32 tonnes of weapons and ammo. It's quite effective against small mechs (hitting with all 4 does 16 damage and cooldown is .5 seconds so DPS is high). I just prefer to "machine gun" approach.

I want my quad AC2's back

[Spiketail Drake]

Kevwill, the same heat 'spiking' on AC2's happens even on a 2 AC2 Blackjack (or any mech that can equip 2 AC2's). Doesn't even matter if you cycle fire or if you fire the whole group.

[WolvesX]

Horrace, on 31 July 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Have you tried ppc's instead? They seem pretty effective, I'm hearing good things.

I love this! Great trolling!

[Zypher]

Wait, AC/2s used to be useful, I guess against noobs that sit there and let you plink away at them they might be...they have always been a gimmick, the dakka dakka might scare some people although it does sound cool and it is fun to pound that person sitting still, but those that know what they are and how to deal with them, they are pretty much a junk weapon.

[Joseph Mallan]

kevwil, on 31 July 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

The first patch that affected heat scaling/penalties had some sort of change that made firing AC2 in fast succession give some strange heat-buildup. As soon as you hit 20% heat, you'd go right up to 40% if you kept firing, normal heat accumulation would resume. The problem is, with the new patch yesterday, once your heat gets up to 20%, it jumps to 40% and it appears as though each individual round of AC2 fired gives an additional 10% heat. Basically, you will shut down after about 10-12 rounds.

Here is specifically what I play:

Jagermech DD or the other with 4 ballistic slots. 4 AC2. xl300, endo and armor upgrade, 600 ammo, as many double heatsinks as I can fit (1.24 or 1.22 heat efficiency I think). I played Tourmaline desert first. I know it's hot there but I can usually fire for 10 seconds before getting up to heat warning.

Here's how I set up my weapon groups so I can maximize rate of fire (this is probably obvious to most people):

Group 1 has all 4 AC2's. group 2, 3, and 4 each have one AC2. I somewhat-slowly roll my fingers over 2, 3, and 4. After group #4 fires, I hold down left click to get a nice ROF.

In the heat of battle I'm not perfect so my rhythm is usually 3 firing quickly and then a delay with the last AC2 firing and then the three again. I've still been accused of using some sort of macro software though... A jager with 4 AC2's is pretty much my favourite loadout. It's a lot of fun to focus on some poor mech and shake them to near-blindness for 10 seconds. The only possible way to use AC2's without the insane heat is to simply fire all 4 at once. This isn't terrible but it's not exactly the best use of 32 tonnes of weapons and ammo. It's quite effective against small mechs (hitting with all 4 does 16 damage and cooldown is .5 seconds so DPS is high). I just prefer to "machine gun" approach.

I want my quad AC2's back

But even 2 ACs is Boating!

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I wonder if raising the cooldown can help, I'd say 0.75 from the current 0.50 could be an okay value to test out.

[JingleHell]

I had a friend reporting the same problem last night.

[Hexenhammer]

I've ran the numbers and post them in other threads. In short if you alpha strike you get no heat penalty if you chain fire you do.

[kevwil]

Spiketail Drake, on 31 July 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Kevwill, the same heat 'spiking' on AC2's happens even on a 2 AC2 Blackjack (or any mech that can equip 2 AC2's). Doesn't even matter if you cycle fire or if you fire the whole group.

Nope. If you fire the entire group, the heat accumulation is uniform.

Hexenhammer, on 31 July 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

I've ran the numbers and post them in other threads. In short if you alpha strike you get no heat penalty if you chain fire you do.

I believe it is your thread I saw a week or so ago (whenever the first heat patch released) that first had this. The latest patch made it worse though. Rather than the sudden jump from 20% to 40% before resuming "normal" accumulation, it's now a jump from 20 to 40, then sudden jumps to 60, 80, 100.

Horrace, on 31 July 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Have you tried ppc's instead? They seem pretty effective, I'm hearing good things.

I did it once. Just to see what it's like. They're not bad I guess.

[kevwil]

Zypher, on 31 July 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

Wait, AC/2s used to be useful, I guess against noobs that sit there and let you plink away at them they might be...they have always been a gimmick, the dakka dakka might scare some people although it does sound cool and it is fun to pound that person sitting still, but those that know what they are and how to deal with them, they are pretty much a junk weapon.

I find them really good in a supporting role. More fun than anything. Any poor ******* caught off guard and out in the open is in for a bad day (unless he's got PPC's! lol) For me, it's more about the enjoyment. I do it with a friend too and we focus targets so even the bigger mechs fall pretty quickly when they are on the receiving end of 64DPS from 8 AC2's.

[MaddMaxx]

Horrace, on 31 July 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

AC2's have a known bug, why shouldn't he use ppc's till it's fixed?

You are being very negative about things.

It is the 1500 Post curse. It happens in 35% of the population o the MWO Forums. A cure is not likely any time soon either. We are still working on Cancr.

[Tennex]

This is a bug
AC2 has no max alpha.

yet it is still accuering a heat penalty even if 2xAC2s are stagger fired at 0.22 seconds appart. in this scenario, only 3 shots are fired withing 0.5s (0,0.22,0.44) as such it should not cause any heat penalties. unless the max alpha was 2. which was tested not to be true.



Probably an underlying issue in the crappy system. There will definately be bugs if there are kinks in the gears

Edited by Tennex, 31 July 2013 - 08:25 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

My first mech was a CTF-4X with quad AC2's, late 2012. It wasn't effective then and it hasn't really been effective since. I lost count of how many times I came out of a battle, barrels smoking, standing on a mountain of expended shells and pleased that I was able to land my shots with great accuracy, only to find that I'd only done about 300 damage. Playing the Quad AC2 was always a huge rush, a great high, followed by a bitter low as you come down and realize just how much the weapon sucks.

People have been complaining about the AC2 as long as I've been playing the game. The only thing PGI has done is reduce cockpit shake (the only reason it was used to begin with), increase heat (which was too high to begin with) and I think they increased range a little (which makes no difference, because you won't be able to consistently hit the enemy at max range anyway, so it's a waste of ammo)

Ask PGI about it. They'll assure you that they're constantly looking at the numbers and evaluating whether or not changes are necessary. Personally, I have a sneaking suspicion they're holding their laptops upside down.

[kevwil]

Alistair Winter, on 31 July 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

My first mech was a CTF-4X with quad AC2's, late 2012. It wasn't effective then and it hasn't really been effective since. I lost count of how many times I came out of a battle, barrels smoking, standing on a mountain of expended shells and pleased that I was able to land my shots with great accuracy, only to find that I'd only done about 300 damage. Playing the Quad AC2 was always a huge rush, a great high, followed by a bitter low as you come down and realize just how much the weapon sucks.

People have been complaining about the AC2 as long as I've been playing the game. The only thing PGI has done is reduce cockpit shake (the only reason it was used to begin with), increase heat (which was too high to begin with) and I think they increased range a little (which makes no difference, because you won't be able to consistently hit the enemy at max range anyway, so it's a waste of ammo)

Ask PGI about it. They'll assure you that they're constantly looking at the numbers and evaluating whether or not changes are necessary. Personally, I have a sneaking suspicion they're holding their laptops upside down.

I too have tried it with the CTF4X. That mech kind of sucks though. It can only support a small engine and the arms are so low you have to expose most of your mech to begin hitting a target. A Jager, as I'm sure you're aware, is very different. With the hardpoints on "arms" that are above the cockpit, very little of your mech has to be exposed before you can hit your target. The effectiveness of the AC2's aside, the difference of using them on the 4X vs. 2 of the 3 Jager's is night and day. The Cataphracts have the most massive torso ever too. They get melted so quickly. Not the say the Jagers are much better but a good part of the Jager is usually (hopefully) hiding behind something and just peeking out while the poor Cataphract has its entire torso exposed before its arm weapons can hit a target.

[Tennex]

does this bug occur on any other weapons being staggerfired? for example, medium lasers

[Screech]

Wish they would fix the heat and the sound of the AC2 as they have broken both over the last few patches. Weapon was never OP but they still decided to jack around with it. Was a nice non-cheese build in the land PPC meta. Not sure why people say they could only pull 300 damage though, as it easily hits 500-600 on a decent win. Might be that they are using a Cataphract instead of a Jager.

[Lupus Aurelius]

AC2 f466otry nerfed?!?!?! If true, about g-damned time...

[Tennex]

Lupus Aurelius, on 31 July 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

AC2 f466otry nerfed?!?!?! If true, about g-damned time...

its a bug believe it or not. even stagerfiring 2 AC2s will cause a ridiculous amount of heat

[Alistair Winter]

kevwil, on 31 July 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

I too have tried it with the CTF4X. That mech kind of sucks though. It can only support a small engine and the arms are so low you have to expose most of your mech to begin hitting a target. A Jager, as I'm sure you're aware, is very different. With the hardpoints on "arms" that are above the cockpit, very little of your mech has to be exposed before you can hit your target. The effectiveness of the AC2's aside, the difference of using them on the 4X vs. 2 of the 3 Jager's is night and day. The Cataphracts have the most massive torso ever too. They get melted so quickly. Not the say the Jagers are much better but a good part of the Jager is usually (hopefully) hiding behind something and just peeking out while the poor Cataphract has its entire torso exposed before its arm weapons can hit a target.

Well, they're completely different mechs. The Jager is a superior sniper due to the position of its arms, but the Cataphract is more accurate when shooting on the move, due to its ability to move arms horizontally. So in a hill humping contest, the Jagermech wins. But if both mechs are caught in open areas or on flat areas of urban maps, the advantage of having arms higher up is gone.

The CTF-4X has a max engine size of 260, so it usually has a standard engine. Without a doubt, it's fare more durable than a Jagermech with XL engine. Hell, even if they both have XL engines, the Jagermech tends to go down faster.

When I'm piloting my Raven, I love running into Quad AC2 Jagers and circling around them while they desperately try to line up shots. It's not as fun running into Cataphracts with all weapons located in their arms.

[Trauglodyte]

AC2s have never been good. They're usable to blind people with shake and smoke (really, smoke?) but you're just building more heat for less damage with the idea that DPS is a good stat. This isn't an MMO boss fight where your target stands still and your damage is padded by crit %. Burning through one spot efficiently is the best way to play this game and going against the norm is just a bad way to play.